I had come across one of the discussions about satan that have been surfacing recently here in this forum. A link to a site had been posted and I went over to check it out. While I don't agree with some of the things on the site, I came across something that was disturbing. Perhaps it's because it's the first time I heard this viewpoint. Namely, that Christ will be rejected by the majority of the protestant church because He will be confused with satan. Just as He was rejected by Israel and His powers attributed to satan. The proposition is that it will happen a second time. This time by the church.

The view (according to the article) is that the major body of the church has taught that satan will set up his temporary kingdom, proclaim himself to be God at the temple and so on and so forth... The article on the site proposes that Christ will enter on behalf of Jerusalem, when under attack and establish His kingdom and proclaim Himself God at the temple and reinstate the sacrificial ceremonies etc.... The church will not recognize her Messiah as such and will reject Messiah because they have been so educated that this is how satan will attempt to establish his authority. They (the church) will confuse Christ with Messiah and proclaim Him and His miracles to of satan and reject them both, thus rejecting the Christ they have been anticipating.

I have stayed away from deeper eschatalogical discussions in the past as they always seem to go off on a tangent. I would appreciate some perspective from those with a better understanding of eschatology.

The article can be found here...

http://www.wrestedscriptures.com/b10antichrist/delusionchapter01.html

Eph.

Eph.

A common error made in eschatology is to ignore the original context and intention of a passage in favor of reading it as if it was written for our perspective. Prophecies written about the coming of the messiah and the restoration of the sacrificial system written in the exile, when such a system had been interrupted, should be read from within that historical context. When the sacrificial system was then restored, they should be read as being fulfilled. It makes little sense to read it as skipping over the immediate fulfillment in order to apply it as unfulfilled today.

In the historical scheme of things, only a prophecy written post 70 AD about the restoration of the sacrificial system would be of any account for us, since we are still in that Diaspora.

Thanks rethinker,

pondering......

But wait,

Isn't a reinstitution of the sacrificial system talked about in Zech 14 20-21? "
"And on that day there shall be inscribed on the bells of the horses, "Holy to the LORD." And the pots in the house of the LORD shall be as the bowls before the altar; {21} and every pot in Jerusalem and Judah shall be sacred to the LORD of hosts, so that all who sacrifice may come and take of them and boil the flesh of the sacrifice in them. And there shall no longer be a trader in the house of the LORD of hosts on that day." (Zechariah 14:20-21, see also Isaiah 56:7)

I have to ask myself... what day ???

"I will gather all the nations to Jerusalem to fight against it," and "The LORD will be king over the whole earth. On that day there will be one LORD, and his name the only name," and "It (Jerusalem) will be inhabited; never again will it be destroyed. Jerusalem will be secure" (the enitre chapter of Zech 14:2). It seems like this is future. He doesn't accept the title deed to the earth until the future, right... Rev. 5?

Isn't this the same thing Hosea talks about in Hosea, "Afterwards the Israelites will return and seek the LORD their God and David their king. They will come trembling to the LORD and to his blessings in the last days." After what I ask myself?

"For the Israelites will live for many days without king or prince, without sacrifice or sacred stones, without ephod or idol." Isn't this the time period we are in now? From the destruction of the temple, 70 AD to present. Israel has been and is without a king or prince, without sacrifice and is essentially agnostic humanist.

Given that Hosea wrote this just before the Assyrian/Babylonian captivity, do you think this is/was talking about the impending 70 year Babylonian captivity itself? Where do you see the Zech. prophesy being fulfilled?

Eph.

Well the choices are to take it literally and conclude that it is unfulfilled. Or to take it as figurative and see it as fulfilled in the return, and the rebuilding of the temple and the reinstituion of the sacrifice.

Hyperbole seems to be a common component of certain types of genres. If we can analyze the genre of Zechariah 14:1-21 perhaps we could compare it to other passages of scripture that share a similar structure, on the assumption that passages which share similar form share similar functions.

It seems to me that the genre of this chapter may fit into the catgory of a "prophecy of cosmic transformation" which is described by John J. Collins "Forms of the Old Testament: Daniel with an introduction to Apocalyptic literature", pg. 117 as:

quote:

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(Prophezeiung der Weltallverwandlung). A variant of eschatological prophecy that focuses on the transformation of this world rather than on judgement of the dead. cf. Isaiah 11:1-9, 2 Baruch 73-74.

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Now clearly you can see how Isaiah 11:1-9 could be eschatological to Isaiah but not to you. (although since we are in the last days, it is eschatological in a sense but realized eschatology to you). Isaiah 11 also contains hyperbole, unless you are one of those snake-shaking folk down in Kentucky who take it literally!

2 Baruch 73-74

quote:

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73 1 'And it shall come to pass, when He has brought low everything that is in the world, And has sat down in peace for the age on the throne of His kingdom, That joy shall then be revealed, And rest shall appear. 2 And then healing shall descend in dew, And disease shall withdraw, And anxiety and anguish and lamentation pass from amongst men, And gladness proceed through the whole earth. 3 And no one shall again die untimely, Nor shall any adversity suddenly befall. 4 And judgements, and revilings, and contentions, and revenges, And blood, and passions, and envy, and hatred, And whatsoever things are like these shall go into condemnation when they are removed. 5 For it is these very things which have filled this world with evils, And on account of these the life of man has been greatly troubled. 6 And wild beasts shall come from the forest and minister unto men, And asps and dragons shall come forth from their holes to submit themselves to a little child. 7 And women shall no longer then have pain when they bear, Nor shall they suffer torment when they yield the fruit of the womb.

74 1 And it shall come to pass in those days that the reapers shall not grow weary, Nor those that build be toil worn; For the works shall of themselves speedily advance Together with those who do them in much tranquillity. 2 For that time is the consummation of that which is corruptible, And the beginning of that which is not corruptible. 3 Therefore those things which were predicted shall belong to it: Therefore it is far away from evils, and near to those things which die not. 4 This is the bright lightning which came after the last dark waters.'

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Just for comparison.

Hope that helps a littl,
rethinker