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#99049 - 01/18/07 03:51 PM Re: Global Warming ***** [Re: Curious1]
mindzeye Offline
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Quote:

hmmm i wonder how they know what the climate and weather was like that far back?





As it says...

Quote:

SOURCES OF CLIMATE HISTORY

Records of local weather, made with the help of meteorological instruments, cover at most about two hundred years, and an even shorter span if a truly global picture is desired. Other, historical accounts exist for individual places--most notably in China, where for certain sites they extend back two thousand years. But although these records are useful, more extensive information is required to understand the full range of natural climate variability.

Laboratory analyses of geologic sediments and other layered materials help meet this need, extending what is known of surface temperature, precipitation, and other meteorological parameters many thousands and even millions of years into the past. Many of these tools rely on the fact that plants and other forms of life respond in distinctive ways to changes in the local environment, thus preserving an indirect, or proxy record, of climatic conditions.

Annual growth rings in trees, for example, can be read much like a diary: tree-ring widths tell of seasonal variations of local air and water conditions--as does the chemical composition of the wood within each ring. The presence of forests and other vegetation, which are indicators of climatic conditions, can be reconstructed from the analysis of pollen in lake sediments. Cores extracted from the floor of the ocean allow us to examine in fossil form the microscopic life that once lived near the ocean surface, and through this analysis, to recover information about the temperature of the ocean many millions of years ago. The extent and composition of coral reefs are indicators of tropical ocean temperatures and, through changes in ocean salinity, of local precipitation.

A particularly powerful technique of recent years has been the recovery and analysis of ice cores, about ten cm (four inches) in diameter and as much as two miles long, drawn from the permanent glaciers on Greenland and Antarctica. Similar samples have been retrieved from high mountain glaciers in South America and Asia. As in the case of trees, the ice is composed of annual layers, although the temporal resolution degrades systematically from top to bottom in the deepest cores.

The analysis of the hydrogen and oxygen in the extracted ice core provides a continuous index of temperature from as far back as 200,000 years ago, sampling conditions in the air above the ice sheet and in the nearby oceans from which the water was evaporated, to later fall as snow. As the snow accumulates, over the years, the underlying layers are compressed into ice. Windblown dust and the residue of ancient volcanic eruptions can also be analyzed. Bubbles entrapped in the ice during the process of compaction preserve samples of fossil air, affording an opportunity for precise measurement of the amount of carbon dioxide (CO2), methane (CH4), and other greenhouse gases in the global atmosphere of long ago.

These techniques are calibrated against similar samples from the present day, for which temperature and other climatic variables are measured directly. What is learned is often limited, as are modern weather station records, to conditions at one region. However, measurements of CO2 and CH4 taken from isolated cores give a global picture, since these long-lived gases are uniformly distributed in the global atmosphere.

When combined, these various forms of paleo-data allow us to reconstruct an imperfect but ever-clearer picture of the climate of the past. All of them clearly indicate that climate varies, due to natural causes, on all time scales, from decades to millions of years.



_________________________
“In the average man . . . the power to trust, to risk a little beyond the evidence, is an essential function. . . .We cannot live or think at all without some degree of faith.”
-William James

I post from my iphone these days so please excuse the brevity and bad grammer...

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#99050 - 01/18/07 04:21 PM Re: Global Warming [Re: mindzeye]
mindzeye Offline
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Registered: 11/11/02
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Loc: Bonsall, CA
Frontpage has a lot of good articles in their archives. That other article from Seattle Times seems typical (like you said) of what you hear from Global Warming supporters.
Basically...
- Most scientists support it therefore its true.
- The only controversy is the extent of future warming.
- Skeptics of it are funded by oil companies therefore they are not credible.
- No distinction is made between natural climate change and that which is caused by us.
_________________________
“In the average man . . . the power to trust, to risk a little beyond the evidence, is an essential function. . . .We cannot live or think at all without some degree of faith.”
-William James

I post from my iphone these days so please excuse the brevity and bad grammer...

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#99051 - 01/18/07 04:39 PM Re: Global Warming [Re: mindzeye]
mindzeye Offline
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Registered: 11/11/02
Posts: 2031
Loc: Bonsall, CA
Just today:
Pelosi Creates Global Warming Committee

Quote:

"I promise to do everything in my power to achieve energy independence ... and to stop global warming," Pelosi said.


_________________________
“In the average man . . . the power to trust, to risk a little beyond the evidence, is an essential function. . . .We cannot live or think at all without some degree of faith.”
-William James

I post from my iphone these days so please excuse the brevity and bad grammer...

Top
#99052 - 01/20/07 10:43 PM Re: Global Warming [Re: mindzeye]
The Barbarian Offline
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Registered: 05/04/02
Posts: 1498
Loc: Texas
The evidence has been mounting for some time. Proxy data has been more difficult to account for, but the evidence has become so persuasive that even the Bush administration recently admitted that global warming is a fact and that human activity is probably causing a good deal of it.

Quote:

Humans cause global warming, US admits



http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/2023835.stm

But there's still good news for the deniers: Bush says he isn't inclined to do anything about it.

Reality can also produce strange bedfellows...

Evangelical Leaders Join Global Warming Initiative
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/08/nation...nyt&emc=rss

Industry signals Bush to do more on warming
10 companies join activist groups in calling for caps on carbon emissions

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16708004/

It's not just scientists who are concerned now.

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#99053 - 01/21/07 05:53 PM Re: Global Warming [Re: The Barbarian]
Rethinker Offline
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Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 5634
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
The earth has been warming gradually for 10 thousand years before that it was cooling before that it was warming.

So good luck to those evangelicals, Pelossi and general electric. They can try to restore the "balance of nature" but they are chasing a chimera.

Glad to see that Haggard signed that statement on global warming, I hope he's consistent and uses bio-fueled meth pipes and recyclable condoms for his party with those gay prostitutes.....


Edited by Rethinker (01/21/07 05:55 PM)
_________________________
"The minute that you allow your circumstances to describe your God - you are in trouble"

-Mark Wilks

Logic brings about, in machinelike fashion, a proper forming of the thoughts. But in the gospel, each true thought, must not be merely formed but must be born

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#99054 - 01/21/07 08:12 PM Re: Global Warming [Re: Curious1]
jononmaui Offline
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Registered: 11/02/06
Posts: 127
Loc: Kihei, Maui, Hawaii
I'm no expert, but I think it could be a problem. The climate does go through cycles, as it has since the beginning of time. However, the atmosphere has never encountered the amount of carbon dioxide and other pollutants in such large quantities....ever. I think it at least plausible that one could expect some problems. I recently watched a documentory called "An Inconveniant Truth". It stars Al Gore. I am not a fan of Al Gore. I am not even going to start on how much I dislike his views, however, I think he has something to say. I do think we can harm our planet if we do not take care of it. At the same time, I don't think God would allow us to destory His planet. That right is reserved for Him alone.
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#99055 - 01/21/07 10:40 PM Re: Global Warming [Re: jononmaui]
Rethinker Offline
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Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 5634
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
5 billion years ago it was all carbon dioxide. The planet is big. How much carbon dixocide have we added to the atmosphere since the industrial age began? its parts per million man.

Know who the biggest CO2 polluter was in america last year? Guess....
_________________________
"The minute that you allow your circumstances to describe your God - you are in trouble"

-Mark Wilks

Logic brings about, in machinelike fashion, a proper forming of the thoughts. But in the gospel, each true thought, must not be merely formed but must be born

-Freidrich Oetinger

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#99056 - 01/21/07 11:57 PM Re: Global Warming [Re: Rethinker]
jononmaui Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 11/02/06
Posts: 127
Loc: Kihei, Maui, Hawaii
So, if it was all carbon dioxide 5 billion years ago, the atmosphere was different. If there was no oxygen, it could not support human life. I don't understand what your arguing. Are you saying we could never make it the way it was 5 billion years ago? The United States from what I understand was the biggest CO2 contributer.
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Live Long and Prosper.

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#99057 - 01/22/07 06:36 AM Re: Global Warming [Re: jononmaui]
The Barbarian Offline
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Registered: 05/04/02
Posts: 1498
Loc: Texas
The world could not work if there were no CO2 sources. It's man's addition to the natural production of CO2 that is the problem. CO2 isn't even the greatest greenhouse gas. It's water vapor. But we don't have "water pollution."

We have reached the stage in our culture (about 300 years ago) where we became numerous enough and technological enough to affect this balance.

And we need to pay attention to it.

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#99058 - 01/22/07 10:17 AM Re: Global Warming [Re: Rethinker]
mindzeye Offline
Professor
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Registered: 11/11/02
Posts: 2031
Loc: Bonsall, CA
Rethinker-
Quote:

The earth has been warming gradually for 10 thousand years before that it was cooling before that it was warming.

So good luck to those evangelicals, Pelossi and general electric. They can try to restore the "balance of nature" but they are chasing a chimera.





Wow, for once we agree on something!
_________________________
“In the average man . . . the power to trust, to risk a little beyond the evidence, is an essential function. . . .We cannot live or think at all without some degree of faith.”
-William James

I post from my iphone these days so please excuse the brevity and bad grammer...

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