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#99289 - 05/19/07 09:29 PM Re: Global Warming ***** [Re: The Barbarian]
Mathetes Offline
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Barbarian,

How do we know what the "normal" temperature on Earth should be?
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#99290 - 05/20/07 10:35 PM Re: Global Warming [Re: Mathetes]
The Barbarian Offline
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Well, we could do an average of all the proxy data as far back as we can see. But that wouldn't be very useful. "Normal" would be what we've gotten used to seeing, I suppose. No matter how you define it, a significant rise in temperature will have some profound effects, many of them harmful.

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#99291 - 05/20/07 10:56 PM Re: Global Warming [Re: The Barbarian]
Mathetes Offline
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Loc: The Cliffs of Insanity -- hang...
Barbarian,

I'm confused. If "normal" is what we're used to seeing, how does this comport with this statement you made a few posts ago:

Quote:

Yep. The really long-term position is a cool period. Humans and society have become adapted to a planet that's cooler than normal.

Warming it to the geological norm would be disasterous to human society. That's how it is. We won't go extinct, in all probability, but there will be a lot of suffering as we have to adjust to the new reality.


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Do we love the Lord our God with all our minds, or do we love how much our minds believe they understand the Lord our God?

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#99292 - 05/21/07 04:19 PM Re: Global Warming [Re: Mathetes]
mindzeye Offline
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Barb- Do you believe that this is a spiritual issue- or put another way that we may be in sin by not believing/caring about human caused global warming? It seems that this idea is picking up steam among some religious leaders. http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070521/us_nm/climate_religion_dc_1

Thoughts?
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“In the average man . . . the power to trust, to risk a little beyond the evidence, is an essential function. . . .We cannot live or think at all without some degree of faith.”
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I post from my iphone these days so please excuse the brevity and bad grammer...

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#99293 - 05/22/07 06:25 AM Re: Global Warming [Re: mindzeye]
The Barbarian Offline
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Quote:

I'm confused. If "normal" is what we're used to seeing,




For us, it is.

Quote:

how does this comport with this statement you made a few posts ago:


Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yep. The really long-term position is a cool period. Humans and society have become adapted to a planet that's cooler than normal.




What's normal in geological time is a bit different than normal for humans, who haven't been here very long.

Warming it to the geological norm would be disasterous to human society. That's how it is. We won't go extinct, in all probability, but there will be a lot of suffering as we have to adjust to the new reality.

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#99294 - 05/22/07 06:28 AM Re: Global Warming [Re: The Barbarian]
The Barbarian Offline
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Quote:

Barb- Do you believe that this is a spiritual issue- or put another way that we may be in sin by not believing/caring about human caused global warming? It seems that this idea is picking up steam among some religious leaders.




Um, in the sense that we are supposed to be good stewards for the things God left in our care, I guess so. I think putting a practical problem, like global warming, into a political or moral context tends to make it more difficult to solve.

So I'm not altogether pleased about it. I realize it does have a moral dimension, but my experience is that such things get in the way of solving problems.

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#99295 - 05/22/07 08:35 AM Re: Global Warming [Re: The Barbarian]
mindzeye Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

Barb- Do you believe that this is a spiritual issue- or put another way that we may be in sin by not believing/caring about human caused global warming? It seems that this idea is picking up steam among some religious leaders.




Um, in the sense that we are supposed to be good stewards for the things God left in our care, I guess so. I think putting a practical problem, like global warming, into a political or moral context tends to make it more difficult to solve.

So I'm not altogether pleased about it. I realize it does have a moral dimension, but my experience is that such things get in the way of solving problems.





Fair enough. I suppose if I was 100% convinced that global warming is mostly our fault then I would probably agree. I think the difficulty for me would be that even if I was convinced that it was our fault, I wouldn't be 100% convinced and there would still be the question of to what extend it is our fault and all that so I would be very hesitant to make it a moral issue. How far could it go too? Is driving an SUV a sin?

Is this the Christianity of the near future? ...Adding more unecessary moral obligations to ourselves.
_________________________
“In the average man . . . the power to trust, to risk a little beyond the evidence, is an essential function. . . .We cannot live or think at all without some degree of faith.”
-William James

I post from my iphone these days so please excuse the brevity and bad grammer...

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#99296 - 05/22/07 07:31 PM Re: Global Warming [Re: The Barbarian]
Mathetes Offline
Emeritus
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Registered: 01/13/02
Posts: 13060
Loc: The Cliffs of Insanity -- hang...
Barb,

Quote:

What's normal in geological time is a bit different than normal for humans, who haven't been here very long.

Warming it to the geological norm would be disasterous to human society. That's how it is. We won't go extinct, in all probability, but there will be a lot of suffering as we have to adjust to the new reality.




Sorry, I wasn't clear earlier. I was asking how we know what the geological norm is supposed to be.
_________________________
Do we love the Lord our God with all our minds, or do we love how much our minds believe they understand the Lord our God?

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#99297 - 05/23/07 08:29 AM Re: Global Warming [Re: mindzeye]
mindzeye Offline
Professor
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Registered: 11/11/02
Posts: 2031
Loc: Bonsall, CA
_________________________
“In the average man . . . the power to trust, to risk a little beyond the evidence, is an essential function. . . .We cannot live or think at all without some degree of faith.”
-William James

I post from my iphone these days so please excuse the brevity and bad grammer...

Top
#99298 - 05/23/07 05:00 PM Re: Global Warming [Re: mindzeye]
Mathetes Offline
Emeritus
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Registered: 01/13/02
Posts: 13060
Loc: The Cliffs of Insanity -- hang...
That's HILARIOUS!

(Putting on my extremist global warming denier hat on for a moment.)

SO WHAT ARE THEY GOING TO TELL US NOW?!?!? THAT THE FLOOD WAS CAUSED BY MANMADE GLOBAL WARMING?!?!?!?

I wonder if they are going to start gathering the animals together. All they gotta do is raid the Istanbul Zoo!

You know ... at least Greenpeace is doing something productive. They are cutting down a ton of trees to produce an ark which will never be used. Ahh, the beauty of the hypocrisy!

I just emailed it to Dennis Prager. Maybe he'll use it!


Edited by Mathetes (05/23/07 05:06 PM)
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